20 replies to this topic

[mutley]

How much would you be prepar3d (Excuse the pun) to pay for an extensible flight simulation program?

We know the MS Flight Simultor francise is long-dead. With the closure of Aces Studios and the imminent release of FLIGHT, this has confirmed our susupicions that they have left proper flight simulation high and dry.

So if you want to stick with FSX, but want a much slicker, higher performing product that is due for a major version update later this year, you would have to look at taking on a commercial product with commercial pricing.

If Lockheed Martin could offer their product with an enthusiasts licence, how deep would you dig?

Related comments welcome

[Sabre]

I've selected a value but I would potentially pay more depending upon the quality of the product. One of the main issues for me is the initial commitment of expenditure without any guarantees of the longevity of the product. To date the information is quite sparse, what is available certainly looks good and promises to be a huge step in the right direction for true flight sim enthuiasts. The commitment to addons by some of the big players (Orbx, Aerosoft) is also very encouraging.

I am relatively new to FSX and flight sims come to that. I'd always had an interest flight but had stayed very much in the gaming area with my experiences (IL2 and helicopters in ARMA II) Due to these dabblings I had already made some initial investment in physical equipment ie PC, Joystick and TrackIR. Therefore my "toe in the water" to the world of Flight Sim was made with a minor investment of just £14. This is very much a no risk dabbling - if it wasn't to my liking well nothing lost really.

I suppose my point here is that as someone who dabbled in FSX initially from a gamers perspective only to be completely hooked and now sees flight simming as a hobby and past time the commitment of expense I'm prepar3d (blame Joe he started it) to make would be significantly greater than it would have been when I initially dabbled with FSX.

Pitching a product at the higher end of values suggested in the vote may well catch the enthusiasts and those already hooked but will it catch many more fish?

[simi_av8r]

i've also voted, but from a budget conscious point of view. I'm sure we all know what possible trouble we risk with 'er indoors when buying new add-ons for our sims, and trying to swing a £200 past her, especially on a joint bank account and in these times of economic downturn....not to mention having to stump up such an amount in the first place. Sure, we've all bought plenty of add-ons for FS9/FSX over the years, and no doubt if we added up the total cost we'd easily be into the low/mid-100s, but having to buy a new sim at £200 and then fork out more for add-ons i'm sure would effectively price out many an enthusiast, myself included.

[Tim_A]

Well, XPX is £60. I don't think the market will take a *lot* more...

[hurricanemk1c]

I can understand why it's $495, but surely they could reduce the price for non-commerical (home) use

[SEATAC]

Lockheed's investment can't be anywhere near what it would cost to develop from scratch. They are either paying a license fee to Microsoft, or perhaps they have paid a larger sum to purchase the source code outright, thus leaving Microsoft to wipe their hands clean of it.
That being said, Lockheed could forseeably lower the cost of the product, especially if they open it up to one and all. The reason commercial software costs so much is due to the limited number of users. The more people they sell to, the less they need to charge to make a profit.

I work for a company that writes commercial software. For a large company, it's an investment that will hopefully contribute to their profit. For an individual, the price is out of grasp.

Now, if our existing software and hardware add-on's will work seamlessly with Prepar3d, I would be willing to pay a bit more. But if I am left high and dry with a bunch of hardware that is rendered useless due to incompatibility with Prepar3d, than I would have to think twice before paying anything more than say $50. At least until that money tree I planted in my backyard starts to bloom.

[simi_av8r]

Lockheed's investment can't be anywhere near what it would cost to develop from scratch. They are either paying a license fee to Microsoft, or perhaps they have paid a larger sum to purchase the source code outright, thus leaving Microsoft to wipe their hands clean of it.

from what i've read/heard, LM has licensed the source code from MS at considerable cost, but at over $400 per license, it's clear that their intentions are to market Prepar3d to the professional pilots arena, rather than the enthusiasts & simmers market. Who knows, maybe we'll see LM partner with Aerosoft to offer a version for us simmers to use at home, only time will tell... Until either that happens, or a version costing less than $150/£75 is available, I'll not be purchasing.

[PanzerFodder]

i've also voted, but from a budget conscious point of view. I'm sure we all know what possible trouble we risk with 'er indoors when buying new add-ons for our sims, and trying to swing a £200 past her, especially on a joint bank account and in these times of economic downturn....not to mention having to stump up such an amount in the first place. Sure, we've all bought plenty of add-ons for FS9/FSX over the years, and no doubt if we added up the total cost we'd easily be into the low/mid-100s, but having to buy a new sim at £200 and then fork out more for add-ons i'm sure would effectively price out many an enthusiast, myself included.

I'm in exactly the same boat as you mate, at over $500 CND Dollars, I would never be able to get it, and even if it was offered at $150 I would have to think twice before asking my mrs if I can spend that sort of money on another flightsim

I suspect that one of the reasons for the cost is what they had to pay M$ and the reason for the "no entertainment use" is much the same. Microsoft will rip off on the so-called "Flight" and milk what they can from the Prepar3d license - while still raking some sales from FS enthusiats who'll stay wth FSX. They're trying to cover all the exits. I'll bet a large part of that license cost goes to M$ either directly or in the initial payout to them. M$ is getting pretty notorious now for screwing customers - see them sueing Comet for making back-up Windows disks of the OS they'd paid for.

Back on the original subject, in the two years since I started with MSFSX I've spent an obscene amount on hardware - x-65F half a dozen panels, yoke rudder etc - work it out and about the same on software photoscenery, PMDG, Flight1 , UTX, UT2 etc.etc. And 'er indoors doesn't know it all. It all just came in dribs and drabs. Provided this stuff will work with Prepar3d and Prepar3d will better utilise my PC hardware in future, I don't find the cost so awful compared with all the additional stuff. But all at once? If it turns out much better, OK. But I'm already retired (where do you think the money for this came from) It's like, say, waiting for promised updates from some suppliers or worse, the high speed rail link - will I live long enough?

Grumpy old Mike

Welcome Mike


Cheer's...Graham...

[needles]

In this cash strapped world we are in at the moment, I doubt anyone would be willing to pay more for a Flight Sim' than it costs for the PC operating system.
Having said that, if I knew something was about to appear on the shelves that would be far better than FSX, I think I would be saving to get it.
I made a concious decision some years back to use my then, very good spec' PC for something other than collecting dust.
FS9 then FSX came along. That was it my hobby (as I tell my friends it's NOT a game) had come alive.
Now, as I said above, if something could blitz FSX out of the skies and perform and behave incredibly superior to FSX then I for one would make all efforts to get it.
I have spent too many hours and too much money on my hobby to forsake it now.
I haven't looked at Prepr3d yet as I am busy building my panel but from what I have been reading in the forums, it looks like it could very well cope with my personal stipulations.
Cheers Joe.

[M31]

I'd probably pay a fair bit for a good Civvie Flight sim that had staying power ... I've learned tonight by looking at the forums here that you can give Prepar3D a 30 day trial, so I'll be checking that out very soon.

Like many here I've made a substantial investment in FSX Add-ons and hardware that seemingly only will ever just work with FSX (some of it works with FS9) and while I'm quite happy to keep using FSX for years to come, if the push comes to the shove ... I'd rather have seen Microsoft build on their Flight Simulation heritage for the future ... Despite what some Pro MS folk say on Avsim ... I dont think thats going to happen

Prepar3D 2.0 with DX11 support and better multi core CPU and GPU support looks like the future for me, ability to hopefully keep using my FSX panel hardware and add-ons would be great, because at the end of the day ... FSX was pretty damn good (a flawed diamond IMHO) and if LM can swing this more towards the commercial user then I would easy pay maybe £300+ for ten years more simming with core updates that MS stopped doing after SP2/Acceleration a long time ago ... the fact Orbx are definitly onboard and constantly expanding their horizons is good news too.

This is a major hobby for me, so yes, times are changing, even with the Flight game its going to cost if it pans out the way MS want it to ... I'd rather LM have my money then them anymore to be honest.

I just hope the whole grey area of commercial licensing is sorted out soon, but from what I make out, MS sold it to LM and LM initially stated it was not for joe public, but the CEO has turned that around by sayings its more or less OK ... grey area that needs to be sorted out before I purchase the future Prepar3D 2.0 I Reckon.

I'm going to give the current version 30 day trial a go though.

[ddavid]

First off, can I also say Welcome to Mike? Nice avatar - does it reflect your age?!? And, can you see the reservoir, eh? Whatever, Welcome to the mad house...

Well, didn't LM get their timing right - bang on with the MS FLIGHT announcement too! Just too coincidental, if you ask me. Seems to me that splitting the flight sim world into gamers - a-la Take on Helicopters, Black Shark (Wossat? - Ed), MS FLIGHT, ect, ect - and DITW (Yeah - gottit - Dead In The Water! - Ed) (No - Dyed In The Wool, please!) simmers, will make it easier for the supply companies (e.g. X-Box/Bohemia/ect and PMDG/Aerosoft/JF/ect) to make investment decisions, nes pas? Or am I simplifying matters too far...

Oh, yes, I'd pay up to 150 GBP for P3D if it had a guaranteed life of 5 years (See you out, then! - Ed).

Cheers - Dai.

[ShrewsburyFC]

Welcome to the Hangar Mike!

[Tim_A]

Yes Plan-G works fine with P3D. You can build a database too with a little effort, but to be honest, if you already have an FSX db built, I see no advantage - the base data is no newer than FSX.

[Tim_A]

Yes, Simconnect connects with no problems.

[TedG]

I would consider something in the range of £65-130.....but currently I wouldn't bother.
I am fairly satisfied with FSX, quite happy with XP9.7, and with time XPX will most likely be my main sim of choice.

Lockheed is mainly a huge government contractor. Having worked with the "real" full motion flight sims in the past (design and commissioning of WAC collimated displays and domes visuals) the priority-regardless of any developer comments to the contrary-will be to satisfy the big customers and that means optimizing for off-the-shelf and custom IG's (image generators that drive FM sim displays).

Its quite nice Lockheed is allowing general enthusiasts access at the moment and looking to work with external FSX 3rd party developers but I am a bit leery of potential support issues and the fact Lockheed could shut the access off in a heartbeat if somebody along the lines of Uncle Sam said "nahhhh.....no civilians". I'm not trying to propogate conspiracies or some crap like that .....I think I prefer the "wild west" open community of X-Plane where it is more driven by the needs and desires of the flight sim community as opposed to a rather large multinational.

Also it is paying money for old rope. We already bought FSX and generally speaking these fixes and optimizations for FSX should have already been done by Microsoft as part of a SP3 rather than calling it a day after SP2/Acceleration.

Just my opinion of course.

[stu7708]

I can only agree with what others have already said, it all comes down to compatability with my current FSX add-ons and such. There's to much money already invested there to

At the moment, when the FSX add-on market is still pushing out some very good products to market I really see no big reason to switch over.

With regards to the discussion on the LM licence I think I read somewhere that they only paid for the possibilty to distribute to a professional market, so I guess they really can't reduce the price for the more "casual" simmers due to their agreement with MS regardless of how many potential customers they have in that market....

[jankees]

I'm quite happy with FSX, having spent a fortune on it already, so unless there is something on the horizon that promises a major improvement (though I do not know what that would be..), I will not be forking out any money real quick...

[mutley]

I think most people agree with you JK, this is more about the next step, once Prepar3d releases the next major version (V2) the performance with be on a totally different level to FSX with the same familiar ESP core.

We were talking about this the other day and for a 6.50 GBP monthly subscription, which is a lot less that other monthly costs I have, including satellite TV and for other things I don't enjoy, I think it would not be a bad deal and you are always assured of the latest updates and innovations for your favourite program?

[M31]

Thats a good point, Joe.

I've just had a look at my online banking and my monthly direct debits ... I could easy shed a lot of that and still have a decent Sky package that is all I really use and put that towards a monthly Prepar3D subscription ... Flight Sim is a major hobby for me.

I've not tried the PC Pilot offer of a free one month trial for Prepar3D, but its been grinding away at the edge of my thoughts for a while now ... I'm gonna do it soon.

I've spent a fortune on Saitek hardware especially that only supports FSX ... I'm keen to see if this can be made to work with Prepar3D ... third party scenery and tweaks to an engine we know too.

If I were to take up a monthly subscription to Prepar3D, I'm guessing you are not tied into it for a yearly? contract.

But just like MS, LM Prepar3D outlook is vague for what they will charge for V2 <--- this is the version most FS vets who dont like MS's new direction are waiting for DX11 ETC ... I guess? Or even when V2.0 of Prepar 3D will be out? its only recently that its became obvious (correct me if I'm wrong) that Prepar3D = Lockheed Martin started to alter their terms of usage ... or make more clear to more general members of the public and make aware of how their license could be used by average public too.

There is a lot of misinformation going around just now.

[mutley]

Hi,

You can sign for a one month, three month or yearly non-recurring developers subscription. Or a recurring monthly $9.99 developers licence. Of course there is the Elephant in the room, the $499 retail version but who is going to buy that!?

Whilst I agree that without having it in black and white from the developer for what they will charge for V2 none of us know, but the developers licence is not a beta, it's an on-going licence to use the core program and develop addons for the core product so I can't see them increasing prices.

I may not be right in my assumption, I am going to wait what the deal is once V2 is released and take it from there. FSX and FS2004 have plenty of life in them yet.
Cheers.. Joe